Overheard in Committee — The Ides of March Edition
We Admit It! Committee deliberations are often as interesting to us as they are to those outside of our office. People seem to have an odd fascination with admission work. We can’t explain it but we’re thrilled to have the inside scoop. So without further ado, more insights from committee brought to you by the Admission Committee.
Overheard in Committee today: “Geez, tell me those aren’t his only ECs.”
*Note: ECs is our shorthand for extracurricular activities.
We were reviewing the files of a young man who is incredibly qualified academically, more so than the average W&M applicant. His curriculum was rigorous, his grades were nearly straight As and his standardized testing was at the high end of our middle 50% range. But he had listed only two lowly extracurricular activities; one was a week long service trip each summer, and the other was a school club that met for three hours each week that he hadn’t even joined until 11th grade. That was all he listed. We scoured the recommendation letters to see if his counselor or teachers mentioned additional involvements but they didn’t. We read his Most Meaningful Activity short-answer essay but there was nothing new there (he wrote about his summer service trip). We were left with no other choice; we had to assume that he was virtually uninvolved.
Many students worry about what kinds of ECs colleges look for. My colleagues and I are often asked if we prefer activity A over activity B. The point of involving yourself in extracurricular activities is not to impress colleges. It is to find something about which you’re passionate and immerse yourself in it. It’s about team work and developing leadership skills. It’s about trying new things and being adventurous. What colleges look for is demonstrated commitment or passion (we like to see that you continue some of your involvements throughout your tenure in high school – this is how you develop your leadership and teamwork skills to the utmost) and whether or not you’ve distinguished yourself within this area (say through a leadership position, or a high-level award like All-State status in athletics or the arts, or creating a much-needed organization within your community).
Much of what you learn in college takes place outside of the classroom. One thing you do outside of academics is join clubs/teams/organizations/fraternities/sororities/service trips/etc. We look just as much for students who will contribute to our classrooms as we do for those who will contribute to campus life and the over 400 student clubs and organizations that exist on the W&M campus. Again, everything is contextual and the same goes for ECs. Some students have to work and therefore have less time to join more traditional activities. Other students might commute a long distance to and from school or might lack the transportation necessary to participate in ECs. Others might move during high school which can certainly disrupt which activities they’re involved in and their ability to command leadership positions. We certainly take such circumstances into consideration when making decisions. But the activities this young man put forth (or more accurately didn’t put forth) will likely decrease his chances of being admitted.
We’re not just looking for just brains or just brawn. We’re looking for both. Being an all-state quarterback can’t make up for the fact that your transcript is littered with Cs. Scoring a 1600 on the SAT cannot compensate for the fact that you’re uninvolved in your school or local community. We want students who will contribute to all aspects of campus life at W&M. Extracurricular activities exist for a reason; take advantage of them because you want to. The fact that they matter to admission officers is just a bonus.
Wendy Livingston ’03, M.Ed. ‘09
Senior Assistant Dean of Admission
Comments are closed on posts older than one year, but we still want to hear from you. If you have a comment or question for us, please email admission@wm.edu.
So true 🙂 I don’t understand how people can be so all or nothing towards school. I have friends who either spend all their time studying or all their time working out. Both seem like too much work, haha! Not only are extracurriculars good for college, but they’re fun to! And you meet new people! I don’t know why anyone would want to pass up on that.
Excellent point Alexis!
I honestly don’t understand why lack of extracurriculars are a dealbreaker. If a student wishes to spend their extra time ensuring that they have a flawless GPA then academic pursuits are their passion. That seems like the kind of person who would thrive at WM, where there are all sorts of academic clubs and potential for independant research. I understand that college has become more of a holistic experience, but at its core, it is about education. If that applicant’s library had a cool name, I bet he would list something along the lines of “Swemming” as an extracurricular.
Anne, we certainly don’t discount the genuine intellectuals and we certainly consider intellectual pursuits like research akin to ECs given the amount of time they could take. College is absolutely about getting an education but it’s about getting multiple kinds of educations. The classroom education is crucial but so is being a roommate, a hallmate, a leader, a friend, a professional, etc. And we like to see some of those skills beginning to develop before a student arrives on campus.
I know that late March/early April is usually your best prediction for when decisions will be sent out, but I was just wondering if you have a better outline of when we could expect to hear. I am getting very anxious! 🙂
E, we don’t have an exact date yet. We normally don’t until a few days before decisions are released. As soon as we know when decisions will be released we will make that information available. It won’t be too much longer now.
Yay!!! I have been counting down the days until April. Thank you SO much for this blog . . . it makes the wait seem a little less long and a little less stressful! I know it takes time, so thank you for making time to keep us informed.
What about extracurriculars that can only be done for some years because of time issues? For example, let’s say I could only do Spanish Club, FBLA, and Tri-M one year, and then the next year I had to drop Spanish Club because it conflicted with my dance practice. Would that look bad because I had to drop one activity to be able to do another?
Last year letters were sent on the 28th. Will they be sent earlier or later this year?
Gracie, glad the blog is helpful.
Sara, we won’t know the date decisions will be released until it is upon us. Committee has a lot of moving parts and it’s not easy to determine when it will be finished. As soon as we know when decisions will be released we will let everyone know.
To the Admissions Committee:
When my family and I toured WM for the first time, I was especially impressed with the Honor Code and the apparent respect students had for one another, including a feeling of safety and security regarding themselves and their possessions.
One definition of honor (from Definitions.com) is “to show a courteous regard for.” I was convinced that this courteous regard would be shown to my son, and encouraged him to apply.
However, in reading the above blog (Overheard in Committee—The Ides of March Edition, March 15, 2012) I was shocked at the lack of honor shown to a prospective student. What was the prospective student’s offense—had he been dishonest in his application—perhaps lying about involvement to better impress the admissions committee? No, his offense was listing too few EC’s.
I realize that there has to be a selection process, and that the admissions committee is free to apply whatever criteria they deem appropriate.
However, is it showing “courteous regard” for students who are waiting on pins and needles for an admission decision, to post something that potentially refers to the activities they chose to list as “lowly” and as decreasing their “chances of being admitted?”
My son is one of these students that this blog could have applied to. I told him that many WM applicants have outstanding grades and test scores; and that summer service trips are very common. But he was nevertheless very upset. How many other students fit these criteria and are also agonizing now about whether they listed enough “stuff”? I understand your wish to communicate to prospective students the importance of ECs but you could have accomplished your goal more humanely by leaving out the personal case and posting only the general information.
Furthermore, time spent in a formal activity doesn’t necessarily indicate passion.
For example, my eldest son practiced daily on a high school sports team. He was required to do this if he wanted to be on the team at all. In contrast, the art club, of which he was also a member, was only available once a week for a few hours. My son no longer plays the sport. However he graduated in May from GMU with a degree in Art and Visual Technology, and spends much of his free time doing freelance illustration.
My middle son invests heavily in personal relationships. He came to the defense of a boy who was a target for bullies, and built a friendship which has lasted all through middle school and high school. He and this boy continue to get together weekly.
Too bad this doesn’t count as an EC.
He consistently invests time playing soccer, etc., with his younger brother since by the time his brother gets home from the magnet school he attends, many kids his own age are back in the house eating dinner.
Meaningful relationships take time. And if you’re a conscientious student, attending to the details of each assignment (unlike my oldest who despite his good grades simply skipped parts he didn’t want to do), you may not have a lot of time left for scheduled on-site activities.
This doesn’t mean you’re not passionate or working towards a goal. My middle son also (like your featured applicant) attends a club which meets only once a week. What is unstated, however, is the number of hours spent on his own researching to find and edit material for his presentations, and the many evenings spent practicing to get the presentation just right. He plunged so heavily into the material that a common comment of the tournament judges was that he should be doing drama. This is just one example of his passion; there are many more, as I would suspect would also be true of your featured applicant.
In the time the committee spent “scouring” the application, perhaps someone could have picked up the phone or sent an email and asked the applicant, or a family member, what else he’s involved in that doesn’t fit neatly on a form or was not considered important enough to be included in a letter. This would have shown a courteous regard for the prospective student vs. assuming “that he was virtually uninvolved.”
To be fair, the admissions committee may not want to take the time or make the effort to delve further. That is their choice. They have many applications to review. However, the respectful thing–the course of action with HONOR–is to communicate with the student himself about the decision, not to broadcast what they perceive to be his failings across the internet. That is not only unprofessional, it is hurtful.
My son may have dodged the proverbial bullet this time; your words may not have been meant for him. But that isn’t the point of my response. My point is that this blog is aimed at someone; and it’s already wounding people before it even hits its mark.
Let me close with lines from The Great Gatsby: “They were careless people, Tom and Daisy—they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into…their vast carelessness…and let other people clean up the mess they had made….”
Karla, we very much appreciate your sentiments and we certainly did not mean to do any harm by our post. We realize now that the phrasing of “lowly” was not used properly; we were not implying that a service trip is lowly but that maybe pursuing it just once one summer does not demonstrate the passion and energy generally behind such endeavors. We’ve found most applicants and their families appreciate the insight we provide in our deliberations through these posts.
In no way do any of our blogs provide any identifying information about any applicant because we do believe confidentiality to be sacrosanct. The blog is simply aimed at expressing the importance of ECs which we’ve done in several blogs. This blog specifically was not about quantity but about quality. We recognize that many ECs have great substance even if the time commitment is more limited or less frequent. It was obvious from this applicant’s presentation that ECs were not important to him and they are important to us because of how much they contribute to the great life of a campus community.
Unfortunately, in a process where thousands of applicants apply, it is the applicant’s responsibility to portray their ECs as they see fit and to express to the Committee everything they hope to through the application. We do not have the ability to contact each applicant for more information.
Again, we apologize if any bad feelings came as a result of our blog. That was certainly not our intention, nor has it ever been. Our intention is to enlighten and to provide context for our process.
@Faith, we apologize but your email got caught in spam. We certainly understand that students cannot continue every EC for all four years. We just want to see some sustained commitments on your resume. Any conflicts can be explained of course if you deem that necessary in your application.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply to my post. I know you have been working really hard recently, and appreciate that you took the time to respond in such detail to my concerns. Thank you again.
Absolutely Karla. We know a lot of students and families are using this blog as a source of information and a cathartic outlet of sorts to share their feelings and thoughts on the admission process and we’re here to be part of that dialogue!