Overheard in Committee: Tough Calls
We Admit It! Another week of Committee has come and gone. With each day the class grows more and more complete but there’s still more work ahead of us. And still tons more snacks. We’re not actually sure we can clear the cart but we’re doing our darndest day by day, snack by snack. But that’s not what this blog is focused on. So once again we turn our attention to the conversations we’ve been having and how they help to shine a light on our process.
Overheard in Committee: Ah, that one makes me a little bit sad.
We had just decided to waitlist an applicant who had some very compelling components to her application. The Committee genuinely liked her. But every application we were reviewing was strong, and every student was compelling in their own right. In the end, the Committee, despite their admiration for this student, decided that her application wasn’t quite as competitive as the other applicants who we were admitting.
During Committee, we are making very tough decisions among one great student after another. It’s literally outstanding student after outstanding student after outstanding student. We can find great reasons to admit each and every one. These decisions are tough, and at times painstaking. But our job is to craft a class and to make those tough decisions. So we do our job, and we make decisions. But that doesn’t mean they come easily to us. You, our applicants, certainly make our job a tough one (in a good way of course). And sometimes we are legitimately saddened about the students who we are not able to admit. We think sometimes people picture an Admission Committee sitting around a table gleefully rejecting students right and left (they likely also picture people with hairy warts and yellow teeth). That’s not our Committee however (either in attitude or appearance). We are so humbled by the strength of our applicant pool and the individual accomplishments each of you have achieved. We love being able to admit students; what we don’t relish is not being able to admit students. Sometimes that’s a harder decision to make than others, like in the case today.
This will be reiterated in the Decisions, Decisions blog when the time comes, but our decision to not take a student is not one we make lightly and in no way implies that the student is somehow lacking. It’s a decision that while not easy, was one that was arrived at after two informed reads and thoughtful deliberation. We don’t make these decisions in a vacuum and we don’t make them without emotion. But we make them nonetheless and do our best to make the most informed and best decisions possible.
And we will get back to doing just that.
Wendy Livingston ’03, M.Ed. ‘09
Associate Dean of Admission
Comments are closed on posts older than one year, but we still want to hear from you. If you have a comment or question for us, please email admission@wm.edu.
Have you sent cards/acceptance letters? I hear a lot of comments on college confidential that you have
@Eliot, decision letters were mailed to our scholarship recipients (which is a very selective subset of our admitted student cohort). No other decisions have been released.
Could you possibly inform us of what this wait listed student specifically lacked from being an “outstanding” comparison to other students? Maybe weaker essay, grades, sats?
@Just Wondering, it was a bit of all of the above. Her application was strong in all areas but just wasn’t quite as amazing in any of those areas as the other students we were reviewing.
Did her in-state or out-of state residency factor in? Was her SAT within your range? If not what is your range for this year? Also, I know many of us would like to know how these decisions actually come down…is there a voting system? Does one counselor fight for the student? Does one counselor make the final decision? Thanks for all you do.
@Just Wondering, whether or not a student is in-state or out-of-state is always a factor but we don’t compare in-state students to out-of-state students. We look at all in-state students together and all out-of-state students together.
Yes, her SAT was within range but since we don’t have the class for this year we don’t yet have a range for this year. The Facts & Figures section of our website outlines the ranges for the most recent class. It’s important to remember though that SATs are just one factor of many. We admit students below, within and above the range when their application is compelling enough to warrant an admission offer, all factors being considered.
While in Committee, we take an old-fashioned vote. All of us can advocate on behalf of any student as we often do. We simply try to discuss all the merits of an individual student, compare those merits to the other applicants we’re also considering and then make an informed vote.
Thank you so much for your informative answers! It’s really nice that you can let us in on what is happening behind closed doors. I, like many others, thought this individual you were discussing was me, by saying”she”. I guess a lot of us are in the same boat. Thanks again!
Ahh, why do I have a feeling this is me. (I think that the gender-related pronoun is really getting to my head.) Regardless, it’s comforting to be reminded that there are actual people with emotions behind that decision, no matter what it may be. I feel like I tend to associate all of my (i’ve had a fair few, unfortunately) rejections with a cackling robot-person-mutant lacking any type of real human emotion. It’s oddly satisfying to hear otherwise. Anyways, keep up the good work; and thanks for keeping us updated!
@Maggie, no need to be focused on the “she”. This same conversation has been had about plenty of “hes” also.
I just went completely pale after reading this. Like Maggie, I feel like this could be me too. Is there any other information you could give us regarding this decision? Was there a final tip somewhere? Like perhaps her GPA or such? Sorry, I’m just a very stressed out senior at the moment. But thank you all for thoughtfully reviewing each applicant even though you have to go through so many.
@Miranda, the tip factor is different for every student. Sometimes it is academic achievement that goes above and beyond the high achievement that is indicative of our amazing pool. Sometimes it is extracurricular activities, or recommendations or essays. Other times it’s a set of experiences or a unique background or perspective. Oftentimes it’s a combination of some or all of the above. What’s important to know, and what we hope this blog illustrates is that we are humbled by the merits of our applicants, we review every student thoroughly, we take this process seriously and those who are not admitted are still awesome, and our decision in no way diminishes their awesomeness.
I just wanted to take a minute and show you some love for this insightful peek into the admissions process. As a family, we look forward to new posts and read them together. Very helpful (and calming).
Kudos, also, for the speed at which you reply to comments posted. To me, that reflects the care and respect you have for the students who apply to W&M.
PS: Show that snack cart who’s boss!
@Cate, thanks for the kudos. And we’re trying on the snack cart front. Giving it the old college try so to speak.
Thank you so much for all of the information provided on this blog. I was just curious, how much do you compare an applicant to other applicants from their school? Do you relate them to those from the same school accepted Early Decision as well?
@Hazel, within the same school we certainly do compare transcripts because students are all part of the same curriculums grading scale, etc. But that being said we still review each individual student within the context of their background and experiences. Because ED is a separate pool we don’t really compare Regular Decision students to those who applied ED.
A student got waitlisted?! I hope that’s not me, because I have applied to William and Mary, and I have included a 4.14 GPA, fairly good SAT & ACT scores, so many outstanding accomplishments, and a glowing essay that will make you breath hard–all of which are in the Common Application. I’m just wondering.
Oh, I’m sorry; I almost forgot to mention that I have a 4.14 GPA going on to a 4.27. Thank you!
@Martha, we’re not quite site what you’re asking but yes, many applicants get wait listed because we don’t have enough spaces to admit everyone who is qualified. You sound like a great applicant and we admit many great applicants but we also unfortunately waitlist other great applicants. That’s the unfortunate nature of selective admission.
I’m so scared when admission decisions are coming on April 1!
@Martha, it’s common to be nervous. But you’ve done your part. You’ve accomplished a great deal and compiled a strong application. Whatever the decisions you receive, nothing changes that. You’ll likely get some great decisions, some not-so-great decisions and maybe some that surprise you but hopefully you’ll have great options and everything will work out just as it’s supposed to.
Thank you! You made me feel better.
Some people need to learn to be more modest.
Thank you for taking the time to post the committee’s progress on such a frequent basis. I look forward to your candid posts and it has truly helped to show the human side of the admissions process. I look forward to your next post!
@VKF, it’s our pleasure. We know this process is a stressful one. We’re glad the blog helps to explain what we do and that it helps to ease some of the anxiety that comes with applying to college.
Do you have any stats to share regarding the number of female vs male applicants, and your target number of offers? I know in the past you have accepted a higher percentage of males because you receive fewer male applications and like to keep the ratio at close to 50-50. I have a daughter applying this year, and I admit that I am probably more anxious than she is:). And, do you take into consideration if an older sibling is attending? I appreciate your blog–it is a wonderful source of information.
@WaitingMom, this year’s pool is relatively similar to previous years’ pools on most fronts. While we do try to maintain a healthy gender balance in our student body, W&M is closer to 55% women, 45% men than 50-50.
We do certainly note if a student’s sibling attends or has attended W&M. That doesn’t convey legacy status but we try to make note of family connections to the College.
From some Chinese online forums , I seem to find that the Chinese application pools seem to be larger than the past few years. Is that true?And I know from forums that some Chinese students seem to receive the Skype interviews from W&M admission office. Does it mean that those who don’t receive the interviews will not be admitted by W&M? It is really upset when I don’ t receive your interview actually.
@Ellery, most American universities have seen a growth in the number of Chinese applicants over the past few years. W&M has certainly seen a similar growth although this year’s pool is not dramatically different than our pools from the past few cycles.
We do conduct Skype interviews with a very small cohort of Chinese applicants. Whether or not a student is interviewed does not imply one decision or the other. Again, we are only able to interview a very small number of students so a student should not read anything into not being interviewed.
Thank you for your reply and I really hope I can be admitted by W&M.
Are you all very particular about taking 4 years of foreign language?
@Mason, it’s not required for admission but it is something we like to see. It’s part of a well-rounded challenging curriculum by big we want to admit a student, not having the fourth level of a single foreign language won’t stop us.
Thank you for the response. I did not have a French teacher for French 111 till February in my freshman year & therefore I did not want to continue though I plan to in college
My daughter has 2260 SAT, 33 ACT, played 3 year Varsity Golf, has 3.95 WGPA took 10 AP courses, actually she took 11 but she had to drop one. She was in band since 3rd grade through 10th. What are her chances? She is really hoping to get in. She is a hardworking student.
@ES, there’s no way we can “chance” a student because our process is holistic and requires a comprehensive review of an entire application. Your daughter sounds like a great student. We’re blessed to have lots of great students in our pool and that’s why we make some of these tough decisions. We promise that whatever the decision, it will be reached through a thoughtful and thorough review.
Wow!!
Also she had 4 years of language, did many internships, has 200 community hours and much more. she would really love going to WM.
Are decisions emailed or sent through the mail? Also, can a deferred student be wait listed?
@Sk, decisions are emailed. And yes, a deferred student can be waitlisted.
….going forward with a positive assumption… When are the “Admitted Student” days? I want to make sure to avoid conflicts.
@BillK, it’s on April 11. Admitted students will receive more information about that program.
I have a specific question..How can I contact you?
@KLS, you can email our office at admission@wm.edu or call us at 757-221-4223.
Great! How long do you usually take to reply?
Usually within one business day.
After being deferred early decision, I am so anxious to see if I have been accepted. Is there a good chance for a early decision applicant to be accepted or waitlisted?
@Anxious, it’s not a lot of deferred students who are waitlisted. But if that’s the most appropriate decision, that’s the decision we make.
Are deferred students the last group of applicants to be reviewed during the admission process? Thanks for letting us know!
@DWatkins, we re-read deferred students towards the end of our reading season to give them as much time as possible to send any updates.
Did I read this correctly that if you were deferred you usually get in during regular decision as most are not wait listed? If so how many were deferred and what is the remaining number of acceptances?
@Lisa, sorry if we were unclear. As we said during ED, unfortunately it’s less than 10% of those who were deferred are eventually admitted. We do admit a select group of deferred students but it is a small, select group.
I’m sure many of us are wondering which students do end up being part of the lucky 10%, so if you don’t mind my asking, what is it that might ultimately lead to a different outcome in RD? Are there any specific details you look for that might tip the scales? Such a small percentage leads me to believe that something drastic has to change in order for a deferred student to be accepted in the spring.
@DeferredNotDefeated, it’s hard to say but generally it’s new or updated information that strengthens the overall quality of the application.
Why are ACT scores not broken down? I would think that could give the panel insight on a students strength and or weakness. With that being said, we all know that W&M looks at really high SAT/ACT scores when compiling their next class along with many other things. Can you give us a lower SAT/ACT score that a student has had that will receive an acceptance?
@Trisha, the ACT doesn’t advocate superscoring (and the composite is not simply an average of the subscores). So that’s why we evaluate the best ACT composite score. Generally speaking, a transcript can give us a good indication of a student’s academic strengths. And we absolutely take students with lower SAT/ACT scores (25% of our students scores below a 1270 or a 29). When the student’s application is compelling in all areas save the SAT/ACT we will not let a lower SAT/ACT hold us back from offering that student admission. And likewise, there are times when we don’t take students with really high SATs when nothing else in the application aside from the test score is strong.
Hi!
When are accepted students ( I was ED if it makes a difference) respectively notified for the Monroe Scholarship, the William & Mary Scholars Scholarship, and the 1693 Scholarship? Thanks!
@Accepted Student, those who were selected for 1693 review were notified in February via email. W&M Scholar and Monroe Scholar notifications were sent by email last night to all of those recipients (including those who applied ED) and they were mailed notification also.
@Accepted student, just to clarify regarding those who applied ED and were then selected for scholarships, since we included that information in their official admit pack that we mailed to you this week we did not send an email in addition. We apologize for the confusion in the previous response. Again, 1693 semifinalists were notified back in February (both ED and Regular Decision applicants).
If I understand correctly what you are telling us about deferred applicants is that we have very little hope, less than 10% chance of actually being accepted. 90%+ will not be accepted. There is a higher percentage of regular applications accepted, right? From your explanation, it seems deferred have lower odds than regular applicants. Why is this? Would it have been better to apply through regular admission? Do we get the same fair review as regular or is there a reason they are the last to be quickly reviewed? Am I hearing that being deferred is possible but not probable?
@Mikey M, this is a bit confusing but we’ll do our best to explain. Deferred candidates were first considered during ED. They are then considered during regular decision. So they get considered twice whereas Regular Decision applicants only get considered once. Students who are deferred can be admitted but as over 13,000 additional students enter our pool during Regular Decision the competition for spaces increases. Know however that the decision we make on a deferred candidate is no different than the decision we would have made had that student applied Regular Decision. So yes it is possible for a deferred student to be admitted but it’s unfortunately not super likely because there are so many great students applying for a limited number of spaces (even more so than during ED due to the sheer size of the Regular Decision pool).
If a deferred student exhibits dedicated interest in WM, such as continued contact with the admissions board and regional dean, phone calls, an interview, letter of cont. interest, and updated over the past few months, do you take that into consideration?
@SK, we consider all new/updated information as well as all original materials for deferred students. Just to clarify, we do not offer interviews to deferred students (or any student once decisions are released) but if you took part in one of our optional interviews offered in the summer and fall we do of course consider that.
Also, does the amount of interest have a positive effect on the decision made?
@SK, it’s hard to measure interest but again, we do consider all post-decision information shared with us by a deferred candidate.
Do you admit/notify students in alphabetical order? A classmate of my son received his notification of acceptance late last week, but his last name comes a lot sooner in the alphabet than ours. We are so nervous!!
@KMV, we notify all students at the same time. The exception being that our scholarship recipients are notified a bit early. So last week we mailed decisions to scholarship recipients and followed up with them by email this week. No other Regular Decision students have heard from us.
Thank you for following up so quickly! We will try to wait patiently 🙂 Keep up the great work – especially the personal touch!
First let me just say that I’m amazed at how vigilant you are at replying to everyone’s questions on here. I was wondering if the applicant’s personality/ vibe is taken into account when deciding? I’m guessing that the committee gets an idea from the applicant’s essay. I’d love to know.
@Cathy, it’s our pleasure. There’s great dialogue on the blog. It helps to get good questions answered. Yes, we absolutely take an applicant’s personality or vibe into account if we can glean it from the application. Our last blog on a good read kind of gets to that.
For ED admitted students, they have not be notified via email about the Monroe? The packages were mailed out on March 16th and not on March 9th? Hoping you answer yes to both!!
@ED Students, information about scholarships for ED admits is in the full admit package that we put in the mail last week so they should hopefully be arriving any day now. ED students who were admitted but did not receive a scholarship also had full admit packs mailed to them and they should arrive next week some time.