Overheard in Committee: Let the Conversations Begin
We Admit It! We love the conversation generated by our Committee discussions and the conversations that arise from the “Overheard in Committee” blogs. This is our first week of Regular Decision committee and so far we’ve reviewed some incredible applicants and had some great conversations. So without further ado…
Overheard in Committee today: “The only thing not to like is her testing.”
We were reviewing an applicant who had taken great courses, who had nearly all As and who was incredibly involved in extracurricular organizations with several leadership positions. The one hold up with her application was her ACT score which is well below our average. We mean when we say that your SAT/ACT scores are one factor of many. While certainly not a make-or-break factor by themselves, they are something we consider, and they are a criterion by which you are compared to the other students who are applying. In the case of this applicant, she was great in all areas save one. The issue is that we had already reviewed numerous applicants today who had also taken great courses, earned great grades and who were incredibly involved in extracurricular organizations while holding leadership positions. However, they also had better testing.
So when we say “The only thing not to like is testing,” what we are really asking ourselves is is this applicant compelling enough to take instead of admitting other students with similarly strong qualifications and higher testing. The answer to that isn’t always the same. Sometimes every other part of the application is so awesome such that the individual’s positive merits far outweigh their weaker testing, and the applicant is admitted. Sometimes we decide that there just isn’t quite enough else in the other parts of the application to compel us to take that student over one with similar qualities and higher testing. Sometimes it depends on just how much less competitive the applicant’s testing is compared to other students.
The point here is two-fold. First, know that testing isn’t everything. The applicant that prompted this blog attends a very competitive out-of-state public high school, took 10 AP courses, was in the top 5% of her class and held four leadership positions including student body president, the starring role in five different main stage productions and debate captain. While her testing was decently below our middle 50% range for out-of-state applicants, it was within our overall middle 50% range. And in committee today, she was admitted. Second, know that the decisions we are making are incredibly difficult. Applicant after applicant who comes through committee is fantastic. This student could have easily been waitlisted because we were comparing her to literally hundreds of other students in that same region all of whom had had great transcripts, great testing and great personal qualities. So in essence, you all ROCK our worlds and we make very nuanced decisions between equally great students. We truly wish we could admit just about everyone who comes before the Committee, unfortunately, the close-knit nature of the W&M community and our relatively small class size doesn’t allow us to admit everyone we want to.
So there you go. Your first voyeuristic ride into the 2013 committee deliberations. More to come.
Wendy Livingston ’03, M.Ed. ‘09
Associate Dean of Admission
PS: If you are concerned about our health and want to make sure we’re eating enough as we move through committee, no worries. The snack cart pictured in last week’s blog is dwindling slowly but surely. We’ve consumed a bag of Cheeze-Its, two bags of frosted animal crackers, 10 granola bars and several snack-size packages of peanuts, Pringles, Fig Newtons and trail mix.
Comments are closed on posts older than one year, but we still want to hear from you. If you have a comment or question for us, please email admission@wm.edu.
ahhh i love overheard in committee blogs! <3 (may the odds be ever in my favor? hahaha)
I know in this blog you say that test scores may not be make/break factors on their own but can grades? and can some grades be on the more forgivable side if it’s being taken into account that it was a student’s first year at a new school after they moved. (because my grades right after I moved weren’t my best ever, but everything since then has basically been a’s/a-‘s/b+’s)
How important are unweighted class ranks in the review process when the student is from a small relatively rural school district?
@Mollie, no factor is make or break on its own. We put everything we can into context and consider an applicant entirely. We never look just at a GPA or an SAT and make a decision.
@Taylor, we consider whether a rank is weighted or unweighted and certainly understand that unweighted ranks can seem weaker than the courses and grades actually are.
Thanks!
could you possibly admit an out of state student that has SAT scores below the 50% range for the overall applicants?
@justwondering, we certainly could. It doesn’t happen terribly often because there are so many great applicants who also have great testing…but it does happen.
What is your 50% SAT score range for out-of-state applicants?
@Lindsey, the middle 50% range for out-of-state students makes up the upper end of our overall middle 50% range which is 1250-1460 (Critical Reading + Math) or 28-32 on the ACT. So for out-of-state students, their middle 50% range is 1390-1460 or 31-32.
Is it true that you only let in one student per are/county for out-of-state students? For instance, if my friend and I, among several other studies, applied to William and Mary, would you only accept one of us?
@Mike, that is absolutely not true. We have not set “quotas” for number of students we admit per school or county or any other perameter other than 65% of our incoming class is in-state and 35% out-of-state. If all students who apply from one school are awesome, we’ll admit all of them. If none are competitive, we won’t admit any.
can a student be competitive based upon their unique EC and essays if there SATs and GPAs were average
@curious, that really depends on the uniqueness of the ECs and essays and just how “average” the GPA and SAT are. The student we described in this blog had a really strong transcript but decidedly average testing. Her ECs were strong enough to push her over the edge. So there’s no way to really answer your question unless we see the entire application.
It’s a relief knowing a low SAT score won’t necessarily keep me out of W&M! My only worry is that my APs and ECs aren’t enough to get me admitted either…just have to wait and see!
Quick question: How much are recommendation letters and essays considered in an admissions decision? Obviously good grades, high test scores, and an impressive course load is essential; however, in my own case, I fall dangerously short of W&M standards.
My recommendation letters are complimentary and I feel that my essay is strong. While I don’t expect these alone to get me in, could it help? Thanks!
@Kaitlyn, all of our components are one part of mmany. Essays and recommendations can be very helpful in rounding out an application and can definitely help us to get a fuller picture of a student. By themselves they cannot make a non-competitive but for students who are competitive they can definitely be helpful.
Thank you! I still have doubts about whether I am competitive enough or not, but I’ll continue to stay positive and hope for the best! I love W&M! 🙂
@Kaitlyn, we wish you best of luck!
How many applicants are being reviewed in the committee process and how many are generally admitted?
@Donna, that’s really hard to put a specific figure on. Best ballpark, maybe high twentieth percentile to low thirtieth percentile of our applicants go before the Committee. Probably about 1/3 of those are admitted from our committee process. Again, these are very rough, anecdotal estimates. We review about 150 students a day in committee for several weeks if that is an easier way of looking at it.
Few questions: Are SAT/ACT test scores still weighed as much when applying as a transfer student? Also, if I applied as a senior and was waitlisted, will this hinder or harm my chances? I recieved solid grades my first semester as a college freshman (3.7 out of 4.0) and am involved in clubs/leadership positions on campus so I am hoping to be competitive enough to be accecpted the 2nd time around.
Also, thanks for taking the time with these blog posts and to respond to everyone!
@Anne, we definitely encourage you to check out some of our Time Out for Transfers and Overhead in Transfer Committee blogs. They address a lot of these types of questions (especially your second one — we wrote a whole blog on that very subject!). The SAT/ACT scores for transfers are not weighted as heavily the more college course work you have behind you. The closer you are to high school, the more your SAT/ACT scores come into play. And no, applying again does not in any way hind your your application.
What kind of things would you consider to be the “tipping point,” so to speak, in choosing between two great applicants if they have relatively similar grades, standardized test scores, etc.? I know leadership positions in extracurricular activities are important, but for example, could an on-campus interview or something else tip the balance in one person’s favor?
Also, what is your middle 50% range for in-state? I’m taking it for the first time pretty soon and I got 1350 on a practice test in October (just math and reading). Should I be worried? Is that in your mid-range for in-state?
Just to clarify (it’s probably not necessary), I mean middle 50% range for SATs.
@Bezi, any part of the application can be a tip factor: transcripts, essays, recommendations, an interview, an art submission, a background/perspective, special talent, etc. All parts of the application assist us in making a decision and any applicant can shine in any one of these areas.
Our middle 50% range is 1250-1460 (Critical Reading + Math). As we mentioned earlier, the upper end of that range is the middle 50% range for out-of-state students and the lower end of that range is the range for in-state students. a 1350 is a good score but of course, scores can always be improved with time and practice. If you score a 1350 when you take the SAT we’d still recommend trying another time to see if you can raise that score because we superscore the SAT.
when are decisions being released? I am waiting anxiously and hoping that the odds are in my favor!
@anxious, as we said in our previous blog, we do not yet know when decisions will be released. Our process is an ongoing one and not one where we can pinpoint its end terribly far in advance. We won’t know a release date until we get ready to literally send the decisions.
If a deferred applicant raises their SAT score by seventy points in one category does that help show the committee how hard they worked to raise their chances?
@Deferred, it’s certainly something we’ll see and something that can be helpful. It will still depend on how your application overall compares to the other students in our pool but it certainly cannot hurt to improve an SAT score by a substantial amount.